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Discussions of "Atlantis from a Geographer's Perspective"
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nidud
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 29
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 Posted: 2007-06-26 20:18:24, Tue Post subject: Sealevel and Silverpit |
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Made a scaled model of the rectangle theory with the canal compared with the ground level of Silverpit. http://www.freewebs.com/nidud/sealevel.pdf
Do you agree on the point that if the rings are Silverpit, then the flood must be connected to the depth as shown in the curve? |
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ulferlingsson
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 120
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| Posted: 2007-06-27 01:40:32, Wed Post subject: Re: Sealevel and Silverpit |
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| nidud wrote: | | Do you agree on the point that if the rings are Silverpit, then the flood must be connected to the depth as shown in the curve? |
It is impossible to claim that it has to be exactly as in that curve. What is possible to say is just that the first sudden rise, MWP-1A (meltwater pulse 1A) is too early, and the rise at the 8100 BP event is too late. This leaves the middle sudden transgression, at the end of the ice age and the turn from Pleistocene to Holocene, as the most likely candidate (assuming now that the level of the rings are 55 m +- 5 m below sea level, which is the approximate level I have deduced from published literature, not from actual seismic field data). |
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nidud
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 29
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| Posted: 2007-06-27 15:30:47, Wed Post subject: |
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Added a page with a scaled model of the rings on the exact location, assuming this is 1.52 East, 54.14 North?
The see should be to the northwest, so the canal is probably made in this direction. The measuring unit used in the Nordic poems are rast, which are the size of the house in the centre (a place to rest). The diameter of the central island is 100 raster, and the size of the ring structure is equal to 540 floors (of the house = 540 raster). Fåvne (favne, favn = fathom), the man who build the metal temple, use the pentagram as his symbol, and should be 1/5 of the original length. One rast should then be five fathom = 30 feet ~ 9.15 meter. The old length of favn is 3 alen, and one alen 0.633 meters. Using this value the rast is then 9.495 m.
The diameter of the central island is 100 raster, 915 ~ 950 meter.
The diameter of the central island is five stade, 925 meter.
| Quote: | Selectiongate she stand on the plain, holy before the holy gates; ancient is that lattice, but few only know how it is closed with lock. Five hundred doors and forty more I think in Selectionhall there is. Eight hundred onelord's at once from one door when witness they go and hunt. Five hundred floors and forty more is Ringbright with and length; of all places I know build, my son's the greatest. Honourtale the goat is called, stands on Armyfather's hall, and bites from Learning's tree; a bowl she fill with the bright mead; that drink shall never fail. Oakhorns the hart is called, stands on Armyfather's hall, and bites from Learning's tree; from his horns fall drops into Spillhelmet, from where water all come.
Wartruce the plain is called where in fight shall meet Soure and the gentle Gods; a hundred rasts it is on every side. That plain is to them decreed.
Oathill's ash is of all trees most excellent, and of all ships, Skinboat, of the esir's Oathin, and of horses, Slippery, Ringsurvey of bridges, and of skallds, Skald, Hoarpart of hawks, and of dogs, Garm.
FATHOM: Ringmade it is called; there shall the gods with lances play; Ringsurvey shall be broken, when they go forth, and their steeds in the river swim. An eye-helm I bore among the sons of men, while I o'er the treasures lay; stronger than all I thought myself to be; stronger I found not many! |
Sleeping Beauty:
| Quote: | In the fell he saw a great light, as if a fire were burning, which blazed up to the sky. On approaching it they saw there a shield-fortress, and over it a symbol. Victoriam went into the castle, and saw a warrior lying within it asleep, completely armed. He first took the helmet off the warrior's head, and saw that it was a woman.
SHE: What has my corslet cut? Why from sleep have I started? Who has cast from me the fallow bands?
VICTORIAM: Victormouth's son has just now ript the raven's perch, with Victoriam's sword.
SHE: Long have I slept, long been with sleep oppressed, long are mortals' sufferings! Oathin is the cause that I have been unable to cast off torpor. |
The metal temple:
| Quote: | | Victoriam rode along Fathom's track to his lair, which he found open. The doors and doorposts were of iron; of iron also were all the beams in the house; grounded in the earth. Victoriam found there a great quantity of gold, and filled two chests with it. He took thence the eye-helm, a golden corslet, the sword named Rat, and many animal traps, all which he laid on Spruce; but the horse would not proceed until Victoriam had mounted on his back. |
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ulferlingsson
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 120
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| Posted: 2007-06-27 17:09:08, Wed Post subject: |
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| nidud wrote: | | The see (sic) should be to the northwest, so the canal is probably made in this direction. |
The present topography may be different from the one when the area was at sea level. Strong tidal currents, waves, and longshore drift may have shanged the morphology. Only a geological investigation can tell us what the contemporary morphology was. If the ridge in the south is recent sand then the canal could also have been built in that direction.
| nidud wrote: | | The diameter of the central island is five stade, 925 meter. |
This depends on the length of the stade. There is a rather wide range of possible values, but they are centered around 1 cablelength (0.1 nautical mile) in length. |
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nidud
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 29
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| Posted: 2007-06-28 13:19:46, Thu Post subject: |
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When looking at ridge in the south I first assumed this to be part of (or created by) the Silverpit crater.
I haven’t made a scaled model on the location as this, which show it to be both smaller and further to the west. Much of the structure could obviously have been changed true the years, but the path out of the place in a larger context must be northwest to Scotland. There should be two eyes watching up there, one in Scotland looking towards Norway, one in Norway looking towards Scotland. These eyes are guarding the straits to the rings in the west, and to the snakehead in the east. These eyes should be engraved on the hammer of Thor.
| Quote: | | THOR: I slew Tenzi, that stout-hearted Jotun, up I cast the eyes of Allselected's son into the heaven serene: they are signs the greatest of my deeds, and still they exist. What meanwhile didst thou, Haircut? |
The length of the measuring unit should be the house in the centre, one rast wide; the district hall is 1 x 3 raster in size with a copy of the original house in the centre. The house is called Hov, which means hoof; could referring to the holy cows in the basement.
The type of the house is in the name of the creator: Bur (Stabbur). Bur means cage or house, stab (hoggestabbe = chopping block) means log.
http://images.google.com/images?q=stabbur
| Quote: | Jotuns I remember early born, those in old foster me have. Nine cities, nine dwellings, a sacred large tree before ground below. In times of old then Ymir build; was not sand or sea, nor gelid waves; earth existed not, nor Upburin, Gulfstream was, grass nowhere, before Loghouse's sons the burden lifted, they who Midfarm, the eulogized creation.
Loghouse was their eldest, then Children second, Iod and Noble, Legacy, Moog, Need and
Needyoung - names are playing (with you) - Son and Learning, swam and at tables played, one was named Patron, Kingu was youngest. There grew up Earl's progeny; horses they broke, curved shields, cut arrows, brandished spears.
There were eleven esir reckoned, when Baal on the pile was laid; him Gyrfalcon showed himself worthy to' avenge, his own brother: he the slayer slew. All these is thy kin, Ottar homein! Baal's father was son of Loghouse: Seed to wife had Geard, she was Gymnast's daughter, from jotuns sprung and Aurora; Tenzi also was their relation, that haughty jotun; Injury was his daughter. We tell thee much, and remember more: I admonish thee thus much to know. Wishest thou yet a longer narrative? |
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ulferlingsson
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 120
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| Posted: 2007-06-28 14:09:36, Thu Post subject: |
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| Your associations are amusing, but of course any scinetific study has to be based on in depth studies. For instance, it seems unlikely that Hov means hoof, since Hov as in the place name Hovs Hallar in Sweden is pronounced as the word "hov" in the meaning 'court', but 'hoof' in Swedish is "hov" pronounced with another o sound. Hov as court has an o formed in the back of the mouth as in "Loch" although it is long, but in the hoof sence it is formed further in the front of the mouth as in English "loose". So obviously they are two different words that just happen to be spelled the same way. |
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nidud
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 29
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| Posted: 2007-09-24 16:27:08, Mon Post subject: |
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Dividing the land into districts with a fixed size creates the society. Each of these districts has a fixed number of citizens. The length of the district is measured from the sea. The district is called fylke and the army fylking; one boat, 18 oars and 27 oarsmen. The midwife (norn) collects all newborn children and distributes them as needed into these districts. None of the people there know their father, mother, sisters, or brothers. In this society there is a strict birth control, no family or ethnic disputes; they are all children of her.
Fylkesting (chief administrative body of a ‘fylke’) means a lot of small district with no outside interference concerning law. These districts were present in Norway less than 200 years ago. Since we know how many districts there was around the coast, an estimate of the size could be made.
| Quote: | Is esir to be found on Mount Ida? (Horg og hov) They sanctuaries and halls build with logs, craftsmen created and blacksmiths, tongs they fashion and tools made.
GOODADVICE: Tell me tenthly, since thou all the origin of the gods knowest, Highbliss! Whence Njord came among the esir's sons, - horg and hov he hav many - yet was not among the esir born.
BIRD: (Hov vil eg hava) County hall's I will have and sanctuaries many, gold-horned cows from the chief's land, if Victorweak sleep in his arms, and unconstrained with that prince shall live. |
So, yes it is a local court, a cow barn, a museum..
The counting of soldiers from ‘sixty thousand military districts’ is 1 620 000 soldiers.
The numbers given in Edda is seven thousand (189 000) plus a larger amount of seamen around Gibraltar. They are going east to Geir-council – to Odin’s land.
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GODSMOUTH: Hither to the shore are come rapid keels, towering masts, and long yards, shields many, and smoothshaven oars, a king's noble host, joyous wolfkin. Fifteen bands are come to land, but there are out at Sogn seven thousand more; here before Pinchgrove, blue-black oceanbeasts with gold adorned; there is by far more multitude there, soon will Holiness to javelincouncil go. |
It could be as I claimed earlier that neither Greece (the mitten Thor is hiding in) nor Egypt is involved in the war described in the story of Atlantis. Greece is ready for war, but not involved in any battle, Egypt is founded thousand years later.
I’ve said earlier that the hammer of god (Babylon) is probably the same as the hammer of Thor. In the Enuma Elish, the Babylonian creation myth, they write about a dragon.
| Quote: |
5. Who was the dragon [...]?
6. Tiamat was the dragon [...]!
7. Bêl in heaven hath formed [...].
8. Fifty kaspu in his length, one kaspu [his height], *
9. Six cubits is his mouth, twelve cubits [his ...],
10. Twelve cubits is the circuit of his [ears ...];
11. For the space of sixty cubits he [...] a bird;
12. In water nine cubits deep he draggeth [...].
13. He raiseth his tail on high [...];
14. All the gods of heaven [...].
15. In heaven the gods bowed themselves down before [the Moon-god ...];
*) Footnotes
The kaspu is the space that can be covered in two hours travelling, i.e., about six or seven miles. These general dimensions of the size of the dragon are in accordance with the statement made in l. 8f. of the reverse to the effect that after the dragon had been slain his blood flowed for more than three years. The second measurement in the line is taken by Zimmern to refer to the dragon's breadth, but, as Jensen points out, this is not consistent with the measurement of the mouth given in the following line. Even Zimmern's readings of 60 GAR in l. 10 and 65 GAR in l. 11 do not explain, but render still more anomalous, the ½ GAR in l. 9. Without going into the question of the probable length of the Babylonian cubit, it is obvious that the dragon's breadth can hardly have been given as so many miles, if its mouth only measures so many feet. This difficulty can be got over by restoring sîrûtishu in place of the suggested rupussu at the end of l. 8. We then have a consistent picture of the dragon as a long thin snake, rearing his head on high; his coils might well have been believed to extend for three hundred or three hundred and fifty miles, and the raising of his head in the air to a height of six or seven miles would not be inconsistent with the measurement of his mouth as six cubits, i.e., some ten feet or more across. |
Mesured on the map
The length of the snake is between 658 and 730 km. (409 to 453 mile). If this is 50 kaspu, one kaspu is between 13.16 and 14.6 km. (about eight or nine miles). The coil of the snake (from north of Dogger Bank) is around 300 km. (186 miles). |
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